Last week my 16 year old son attended football camps at Notre Dame and the University of Tennessee. (Which is also why I haven’t blogged recently.) The differences in the quality of the two camps stood out clearly from the start of each camp.
At ND registration started 5 minutes early. People let us in at a controlled rate and made sure we knew exactly which table to go to. At each table we completed only one task which kept the process moving quickly and smoothly. Once we began registering, we were finished in 10-15 minutes. We then went and checked my son into his dorm which also was quick and painless. People were stationed at every intersection, making sure we knew where to go.
UT’s registration process moved much more slowly. At times we waited 10-15 minutes at one table. Part way through we had to go check into the dorm which was half way across campus. Given the number of one way streets and complexity of UT’s campus, had I not been an alumni, finding the dorm would have been difficult. Too few clerks at the dorm slowed us once again. Checking in the dorm took at least a 30-45 minutes while at ND it had taken 5-10 minutes from leaving the registration site to being fully checked into his dorm room.
Returning, as directed, to the registration site at UT, completing registration included my son being measured and weighed, having his picture taken with and without his shirt on, plus him running a 40 yard dash and doing the shuttle run. His times were slow as he was stiff and sore from the ND camp which had only finished the day before.
Taking pictures of kids with no shirts, and holding a white board with their height and weight at UT, was too weird for me. At UT’s introductory meeting, they claimed the camp wasn’t a “recruiting camp.” If so, why did they take height, weight, pictures with no shirt (the kids never received a copy of either picture taken of them), and later divide the groups into high school seniors and others? Indeed, the camp appeared to be nothing but a camp to assess potential talent.
The registration processes proved to be signs of things to come. Notre Dame’s camp, 4 days/3 nights, ran like clock work. All activities began and ended as scheduled even when, one evening, rain forced activities inside. Although ND had 300-400 kids, the ratio of coaches to campers was excellent. They stressed technique with some actual contact drills (no pads). Each camper’s picture was taken with ND head coach, Charlie Weiss. Coach Weiss showed up regularly every day giving friendly greetings to everyone he passed by.
At UT, head coach Lane Kiffin was not in the pictures although there were less than half and many kids. Additionally, the kids received little technique instruction, at least the linemen, and primarily went through drills matching one against another. This further reinforced the feeling the camp was primarily for recruiting purposes. Tennessee also played loud hip-hop/rap music during many of the activities. Lyrics I heard referred to “Mother f***er”, of something that sounded just like it, and “I’m a venereal disease.” Stuff I wouldn’t let me kids listen to but apparently approved by the UT football staff.
The staff at Notre Dame, coaching and other personnel, seemed much more professional than those at UT. The only thing I liked about UT’s camp was that my son got to go up against a couple of big guys and he held his own. He won’t face anyone like that during the season. The only thing my son liked about UT was the food. UT has always had a good Food Services department.
Everything about Notre Dame impressed me. Nothing about Tennessee did.
After the camps were over, my son and I talked about his goals. I told him how my sister had set a goal to be good enough to play for the Lady Vols. She wasn’t that good but was good enough for 5 NCAA Division 1 colleges to offer her a scholarship. My son responded, “My goal is to be good enough to play for Tennessee, but I’ll play for the University of Cincinnati.” Although my father, mother, two sisters, one brother, and myself graduated for UT and my father taught there for his entire career, I approved his choice whole heartedly.
Go Orange! When I was in Saudi one of the nurses working directly for me had been a walk-on at UT. One of my other nurses had attended the U of Alabama and played baseball for a year there. Sports talk in our group was highly directed to the SEC and, specifically, whether UT or Alabama was better. It was actually a lot of fun as they were good natured about it, seldom drawing blood.
Good luck to your son. I hope his dream comes true. I think you are right to point to the head coach making the difference. It all starts at the top. Being competitive and a winner does not mean you have to be an ass or unfeeling. Seems to me that the better coaches at the better programs emphasize more than numbers.
Why U of Cincinatti? I grew up in Indiana, but dont follow midwest football that much anymore. How are they doing there?
Steve
Thanks, Steve.
The University of Cincinnati has built up its football program over the last ten years. Last year they played in the Orange Bowl as Big East champions.
Brian Kelly is finished his second year as head coach at UC this past season. His style of offense fun to watch and fun to play. UC has the advantage of being close to home which would make it easy to go to the games, but Kelly is the bigger reason.
As long as UC can keep Kelly or someone like him, they’ll be high on my list and, probably, my son’s.
One was the best of camps, one was the worst of camps; one was the camp of dispatch, one was the camp of delay; one took care for each one, one was fit to the mass: one was the camp of I, One, one was the camp of U., Tenn.; one was the camp of the sacred, one was the camp of the profane; one was a scholar’s Grace Land, one was a school of hard Knoxville; we were all going to Super Bowl, we were all going to warm the bench.” - Darles Chickens.
That was fowl DSL.
Steve
Fowl? I thought it was a fair cop, m’self, Guv…but ever since I read A Sale of Two Titties by Mr. Chickens, I try to keep abreast of references to it elsewhere, no matter how many legs I have to pull – even if it means borrowing from roasts at the Fryer’s Club – or winning the Pullet Surprise; now if you’ll ex-squeeze me, I must needs duck as our fine-feathered fraternity flings rubber chickens my way: and though I’ll be the first to admit I was probably crowing above my bantamweight in the screen game – though I met a few Cornish Gay Men when on UK location – I hope you’ll watch for my roll (with cole slaw) in the new rebake of Rooster Cockburn…
DADvocate, in the c. 17 months since this blog went live, it’s been a rare day not just in June but anywhere over the year when a post brings in 100 hits in its first 24 hours. The all-time #3 post, from 1,975 in all, took over 9 months to garner 1,437 hits.
This post, thanks to its having been picked up by several Notre Dame fan sites, is our new all-time #3 at 1,740 hits in its first 21 hours – with 235 of those arriving since I commenced typing this salute, at “only” 1,505 hits, about half an hour ago. You put the rock-ribbed Dash Riprock in our Summer-of-Lovin’ blog dashboard, our Hay-Dashboardy…Well done indeed, and good luck with your encores – you’ve set the bar high indeed:
Why, DAD, he doth boot this narrow blog
Like an Insta-Punt-It, and we in our training bras and jocks
Pass under his huge, um, hits and post about
To find ourselves hunched back before his Notre Dame.
Men at some time are bloggers of their fates:
The gap, dear Alexandrians, is not in our tags,
But in our traffic, that we are underDADs.
Chuckspeare,Little Cæsar. Pie I, Slice 2.
You, DAD, can Fight my Irish seven ways from, and not only on, Sunday: you cast the spell, I’ll ring the bell – and to heck with Quasi-; with me, you’ll always get The Full ‘Modo…
Just one thing, this is this staff’s first season, so they still have to work on the little things such as registration and such.
Well, DSL, I hope each and every one of those thousand-plus hits took pains to peruse your contributions. Someone should recruit Darles Chickens for a basketball team. There’d be nothing but net (oh, and maybe a little tulle or tu(tu)). It will certainly be a sad day when the Little Knell sounds for Our Mutual Friend, Darles Chickens.
I thought Scott was channeling the radio show Chicken Man.
“Chickennn Maaaaaaaan… he’s everywhere, he’s everywhere!”
I went to the UT camp and I had none of the problems that you and your son experienced. Perhaps it sililar to a restaurant? Just because one table’s food took too long, it doesn’t mean every patron had a bad experience, and to the contrary most had a wonderful experience.
just saying.
thanks that is gonna be useful for my cousin….
visit,
http://doomsdayarriving.wordpress.com
Well, it’s official, per our blog-stats dashboard – you’ve done in about 36 hours what it took our previous #1 post, “Peak Season for Nakationers“, about nudist or “naturist” travel, sweetened, even, with a Benny Hill nudist-colony sketch, over fourteen months to attain, at over 5800 hits – proving, if nothing else, that college football in general, and Notre Dame and its divers challengers across the dozen and more sites that picked up this post, are still more popular than going around with no pants, the veteran efforts in this line of Donald Duck, et al, notwithstanding.
If I were you, I’d celibate, er, celibrate, with a gridiron-shaped bacon-and-pepperoni-topped cheesecake, a nice bottle of shom-PAHN-ya, and a video of Knute Rockne, All-American…
[...] [...]
I have a friend who attended Notre Dame many years ago on a full scholarship for writing. There was a position open for a student to teach creative writing, and she was asked to fill it.
One of her favorite memories is of having a good number of the school’s football players in her class. She said their writing was amazing and she had a blast with the whole experience.
I love that story because I’d never before heard of football players being spoken of in that way. Pretty cool. She also mentioned that they were Cowrazy talented on the field as well…OF COURSE!
Fighting Irish!
Have a Blast…
From the We Knew Him When files:
["The Graduate Gridiron with Griff Gradgrind on ESPN.com is posted before a delayed podcast audience." - Voiceover by Gilbert 'AFLAC!' Gottfried.]
Host: Hi, and welcome back to The Gridiron with Griff Gradgrind. Football camps: we see the end results on the field – but what of the consumer’s angle at the early high-school input level, vis-a-vis A Boy and His Dad on the road? Does one camp really differ from another, or, as once was said of sports-talking heads, they, er, we, all look the same? A few months ago, a post at Alexandria by DADvocate, “A Tale of Two Camps”, drew a rather striking contrast between the got-their-scat-together-or-not levels of user-friendliness at the respective football camps at two name schools. The post burned up the comment boxes at dozens of fan boards and broke all previous traffic records at DAD’s group home, er, blog, of origin – vanquishing even the hardy perennial of a post on traveling while nekkid. DAD’s post led in short order to From Runt to Punt: A DAD’s Quick-and-Dirty Guide to Your Son’s Football Camps, just out in hardcover and quarterback, er, paperback, from Doubleplay, er, -day. DAD couldn’t be with us today owing to a courtroom battle with the United States Postal Service, so joining us via remote from our Portland, Maine affiliate is the Alexandria-blog’s self-anointed statistician and DAD’s blogging stablemate DSL., whose own blog posts, when not nudity-inspired, are read in easy chairs and couches and patios all over a half-acre section of extreme southwestern Maine several hundred times daily. Now, D. – may I call you D.?
DSL.: Si.…sigh…
Host: D., how did you feel when you first saw the draw-jopping traffic levels DAD’s post was pulling in on its first two days?
DSL.: Not blogling rivalry, I can assure you, although that’s the popular conjecture of those who imagine backstage intrigue and bloggers with daggers. Pride is more like it: “I knew the DAD when he used to blog-and-roll,” as Nick Lowe didn’t sing.
Host: Let’s get to the actual substance, and the strengths and weaknesses of the two schools’ camps.
DSL.: Oh. Is this a sports-related interview? I went to a Reds game back in ‘77, I think it was…and a Yankees game in ‘78, my junior year, after we moved [tears up]…I want to go home…
Host: We’ll be back after a brief message from our sponsor, Enzyte [cue Como-meets-"Beaver"-whistle-theme, &c.]…
Welcome back. Now joining us is DADvocate himself via remote, his suit against the USPS having just been settled out of court via an historic agreement by which the Postal Service will issue him his own wireless netbook logged in at all times to its mail-holding web page, and his ex-wife will receive back pay and retroactive swearing-in as a backup female-mail carrier; I have a feeling this story may knock his now-classic Fighting Irish v. Vols set-piece off the Alexandria traffic-charts pretty quickly in its own right -
DSL. [breathless after sprinting back into Portland-affiliate studio and clinching a re-connection]: It just broke the 10,000 mark – now leading “A Tale of Two Camps” by one “touchdown”, I think they’re called…
Host: I thought you were sports-illiterate?
DSL.: I speed-read DAD’s new book online during the Enzyte commercial…
That’s the best way to outline a goal I think: both optimistic and realistic. Those who are truly passionate about something will fight to do their absolute best and seize any and all chances they get to perform.
~CD
Wow, DADvocate, I’m trying to imagine how big your son must be . . . . My best friend married a tall man and has three sons who are tall, athletic and strong. The oldest, who looks like a young half-blood giant prince to me, was ALMOST big enough to make the U of M football team. He tried out, but they told him reluctantly that he was not quite big enough. So he went away and lifted weights and bulked up with great intensity and dedication. He gave it a second shot. But, in the end, they turned him down. So if your son has a better shot than my friend’s, I’m guessing he must be a marvel of engineering!
[...] A Tale of Two Camps Last week my 16 year old son attended football camps at Notre Dame and the University of Tennessee. (Which is also why [...] [...]
It sounds to me like your son was not good enough to get the attention of Tennessee and now you just have sour grapes. Once a Vol, always a Vol. It does not sound like you even ever were. Please do not try to hurt my Vols any more.
Go Vols!
The pictures without shirts and holding whiteboards is exactly what they do at the NFL combine, which is Tennessee’s selling point: they will better prepare you for the NFL than any other school in the country.
As for the music, you’re just being naive if you don’t think your son will be hearing that kind of music no matter where he goes to school.
I’m also not surprised that Notre Dame’s camp was more organized. This is the first year for Tennessee’s staff to be running this kind of activity, they’ll iron out the wrinkles and have more student volunteers in the future.
As for not taking individual pictures with all of the players… Really? You’re trying to play football not get your picture taken. That’s something they do at camps for elementary school kids.
OK, DADvocate, now you’re just showing off: you just passed the 10,000-hit mark for this post; maybe it’s not just football camps but blogging camps* you should be considering…
*With “I’m a Lumberjack, and I’m OK” as your theme tune
Sorry Colts18, I don’t buy it. You think the pictures help prepare a player for the NFL? Are you serious? In the camp, they were teaching very little instruction. How does this show they will prepare them for the NFL. Sounds like you are grasping at straws. I went to Michigan, Michigan State, ND and Ohio State’s camp and all but ND was a recruiting trip. Sure they were checking out kids but they didn’t make it blatantly obvious like UM did. UM’s was just a meat market with close to 1000 kids while ND had about 200-250 kids.
Some people show up here due to a genuine hatred of all that is ut!
Perhaps if Notre Dame did a little more “recruiting” at their website they might win a few more games…just sayin’…
Let’s face it, your kid is going to play for Cincy..some kids just can’t cut it at a high level…Your kid is mediocre Division 1 talent at best…it IS a recruiting camp and DOES use NFL standards, I wouldnt worry though, you’ll never have to suffer the horror of your kid being evaluated for that
Dude whoever wrote this article is a little girl.he is gonna have a heartattack just because of some cuss words
Congrats, Dadvocate! I think you’ve just won the Alexandrian Heisman.
Little girl? Maybe just a parent who cares about his kid. I suspect he knows that there will be bawdy music and cuss words. Doesn’t mean he has to like it. Besides, it is a God given American right to complain about anything we don’t like.
Steve
Colt18,
What % of these players go to these camps go to the NFL?
Well less than 2% of college seniors are drafted!! I think being prepared for next 40 yrs of your life is a little more important and I think ND does a ’slightly’ better job of preparing their football players for the next 40 yrs than UT.
I’ve been to dozens of ND football games and the best fans I’ve EVER encountered were those that attended the game in 2001 when another Clausen ran all over us. the fans were gracious, hospitable, easy going in winning and losing. My other run in with Volunteer fans came in 2005 and the fans were equally awesome in defeat. I had really set your team and fan base as first class; perhaps I just was delusional in my respect for TN. For now I see, like every fan base, there are a select douchebags that give an institution a bad name. I mean bashing a kid because he wants to attend Uinv of Cincinnati. I loved Fulmer, was sad to see him go and I doubt he’d condone such fan behavior. Good luck with Kiffen.
Sounds a little like sour grapes to me.
Funny how all the big time recruits who have recently committed to UT ( & some who haven’t committed to a school yet) have raved about the way the camps were run, from the instruction to the intensity of the camp. You can find their comments on any of the recruiting service websites.
Congrats to your son on playing for Cincy.
Its funny to see the Tenn homers come in here and defend a football staff that has been plagued with secondary violations, guffaws and other embarrassments since the moment they got to campus.
Kiffen is the laughing stock of the conference with his outlandish behaviour. Add Orgerons bizarre stuff and its kind of sad watching the clown show erupt on Rocky Top.
It seems to me that a train wreck of gargantuan proportion will eventually happen in Knoxville.
Well said Colts18. Tennessee is selling a way to the NFL not a picture with a clown named Charlie.
LSURulz-
Your Coach is Miles, nuff said.
I’m kind of glad DAD chose not to embed a video clip atop this post, given the quick-and-dirty mirroring of YouTube comment-threads tribalist slugfests here, already in progress (dodges arrows out of Go-Go-Gophers)…
Just another Kiffin detractor. Jump on the bandwagon and tell half truths all you want. Waaaa-I had to stand in a line.
We are coming to get you in a year or two and you know it. Let his little boy go somewhere else. He wouldn’t make the Big Orange team anyway.
“I went to a Nike camp and a Notre Dame camp and they were not like the Tennessee camp. I liked the intensity at Tennessee’s camp and that is how the coaches are going to coach me here.
At first I didn’t even want to come to Tennessee’s camp. I have to thank my dad for that. [...] Iowa was one of my top choices but they hadn’t offered and my dad said we were going to go to Tennessee’s camp. When I got here it was amazing.”
-Zach Fulton, #21 ranked OG in the country, who was at the same camps as this dad. He just committed to Tennessee.
‘Nuff Said.
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Its funny how you hire a coach ..pay him millions….he hand picks his staff…. they will be responsible for the for millions of dollars in budgets, planning ect…. BUT they cant run a football camp LOL
Stop making excuses Kiffin is not on par Wiess and its not like UT has never had a football camp before…again excuses…
By the way Zep “Well said Colts18. Tennessee is selling a way to the NFL not a picture with a clown named Charlie.”
I believe it is the UNIVERSITY of Tennessee not a farm team for an NFL franchise. Should they not be selling an opportunity to play football and receive a quality EDUCATION. You my friend are selling the players and the University of Tennessee short
Its funny how you hire a coach ..pay him millions….he hand picks his staff…. they will be responsible for the millions of dollars in budgets, planning ect…. BUT they cant run a football camp LOL
Stop making excuses Kiffin is not on par Wiess and its not like UT has never had a football camp before…again excuses…
By the way Zep “Well said Colts18. Tennessee is selling a way to the NFL not a picture with a clown named Charlie.”
I believe it is the UNIVERSITY of Tennessee not a farm team for an NFL franchise. Should they not be selling an opportunity to play football and receive a quality EDUCATION. You my friend are selling the players and the University of Tennessee short
Some of the UT people on here are looney. His 16 yr old son not good enough to get the coache’s attention at UT? Maybe his son isn’t good to play for a top school like UT? You UT people that are being a**holes need to remember you have the same team that lost to Wyoming last year. Weiss not winning? Lane hasn’t won as a head coach at all. Every play he called at USC had to be ok’d by Pete and even there Lane was a co-offensive coordinator. When he went to the NFL well we don’t need to get into that we all know he lost horribly.
What’s going to happen when UT doesn’t win with Lane? You a**hole UT fans on here going to have some great excuse then too? Weis can’t win……..Lane can’t either….proof in the pudding.
LOL, Fatty didn’t like taking his shirt off, LMFAO!!
Close “Captianed” for the (“Obviously”) spelling-impaired.
Points for making me laugh, in unbidden recall of gym class…
Noted with tangential/coincident amusement, from The New Republic:
Sins of the Father
by Jason Zengerle
Why hangers-on and low-lifes are better for a young basketball star’s career than a caring dad.
“Finally, Lance Stephenson, the New York City high school basketball star I wrote about in March, has decided where he’s going to college: the University of Cincinnati…”