The other day I overheard a conversation in which a man was complaining about having to pay child support. He told his friend, “…and every time I see my ex, she’s wearing new shoes. Can you believe that?”
No! How dare that woman purchase new shoes! Everybody knows your former, evil seductress — the one who’s now single-handedly rearing your contribution to the Great DNA Swim — should be forced to walk on tacks and broken glass before she’s permitted multiple footwear options. For crying in a bucket, what a wench!
Look, Moron, one of the popular, oft-intrinsic benefits of being born with a uterus is the ability to hone in on hella-reduced shoes. For what you spent on lunch that day, bitching and moaning about the financial woe of being a weekend parent, I could have purchased two pairs of shoes, maybe three — and in less time than what it took you to order, eat, and calculate a ten percent tip for your “busy waitress chick with the saggy tits.” (At least you’re across-the-board in your effort to be crowned Mr. Silas Marner 2008.)
Yet, you’re not really complaining about the cost of footwear, though, right? Nah, you’re mad because she’s taking your kid-money and doesn’t appear to be suffering. In fact, she’s going about business as usual. I would have enjoyed eavesdropping your honest sentiments, which might have been more along the lines of: “And every time I see my ex, I’m freakin’ irritated she’s not begging on the corner of Market and Stemmons.” Or how about: “And every time I see my ex, I still notice every detail,” because, let’s face it, you’re still wrapped up in the drama of your split. It’s not about your child, and that pisses me off. Why? Because it takes a village to compensate for the mistakes of its idiots. I don’t enjoy picking up your slack — emotionally OR monetarily.
Allow me to clear things up somewhat. Custodial parents do not “qualify” for child support from non-custodial parents; they’re entitled to it. This is not about charity, and you aren’t some kind of hero if you submit regular payments to your baby mama/daddy. In fact, bragging about that sort of thing is about as silly as telling people how rad you are for stopping at red lights. Furthermore, the money is about your kiddo’s welfare. If new shoes are something Baby Mama needs to wear in order to bring home her share of the bacon for Little Precious, so be it. It’s not like she’s laying around eating bon-bons in those shoes you bought her. If so, you should have fought for full custody (and been more selective with whom you impregnated). Deal with it or shut up, Silas.
Things I do with my shoes (that your ex might also do): Clean Little Precious’ room, take Little Precious to school, slay scary bugs for Little Precious, prepare Little Precious’ meals, purchase Little Precious’ groceries, take LP to the movies and the library and the pool and Six Flags and and AND…well, hopefully, you get the idea. Man, it would suck to do all of that barefooted or with only one pair. I’d hate to wear my work boots to the public pool. Likewise, I shiver to think of how hideously imbalanced your child might be if his/her mother is expected to live like some kind of little matchbox girl in order to save for that Lamborghini Gallardo you probably think she should purchase for his sixteenth birthday gift (after ALL those years of receiving your child support).
Chirrens ain’t cheap or easy. If you think a few hundred bucks here and there will float the boat, you should be sterilized right this second. Seriously, you really should — because your semen shouldn’t be allowed to contaminate the gene pool any further. You should WANT to make sure your child has everything he/she needs to avoid making your mistakes, to be successful in her endeavors, yeah? Well, sometimes that isn’t free. Sometimes it takes a lot of friggin’ “shoes” to make that happen. For instance, when my kid went through her Hannah Montana phase this year…ugh, and last year…oh, God, and yesterday, I soldiered through the high cost of Everything Hannah and iTunes’ Hannah mania (ON MY MUSIC LIBRARY, even) and the loud Hannah blaring through the truck’s stereo speakers on the way to and from school and my kid’s bedroom speakers. I learned the words to all the music. I sang along with my kid. I proudly suffered lots of headaches and lost a small percentage of my sanity. I even wrote a nasty letter, which I published, to Disney, Hannah, and her “Hee Haw Pee Paw,” as I called him, when my girl saved all her allowance for months to buy a ticket to a show that was “sold out,” a-hem, in twenty seconds. [Cough, cough, couldhavebeenavoidedbuttheydidn'twantto] Anyway, what I’m getting at is this: There’s a difference between being a good, attentive parent and just being an ATM. You often have to be both AND in a way that’s also good for your own well-being. Otherwise, you create a spoiled brat who’s been allowed to suck your lifeblood dry. Your baby mama does you no justice if she deprives herself. Therefore, when you see her sporting those new shoes, know she deserves them; after all, she’s wearing them when she’s singing Hannah Montana with your kid.
As for me, I can’t complain. My ex knows cool kicks are a small price to pay for the woman who loves his child as much as he does.
I just had that same complaint about the support I give to my kids not there mom, but get this, and try to understand this, a women is very much entitled to support, but she’s also entitled to spend that money on that kid or on something that has a significant and or direct effect on there child. Shoe’s, that’s her responsibility, no longer the fathers! Custody, Where I’m from, Wisconsin, it’s a pro mother state. Placement is automatically given to the mother. A man can fight for custody but 97% of the time he loses anyway for a number of reason’s but the biggest one being the state feels the mother is whats best for the child. Maybe in some cases definitely not all. I fork out around $1500.00/ month in support willingly. But what fucking bothers me is there mom has an income of $3400.00/month after taxes. But yet my kids still live in the ghetto, and there mom and her boyfriend who doesn’t work, just bought matching crotch rockets and went on a cruise. My kids wear hand me downs and the only time they get new clothes is when I go above and beyond my support and buy it for them. They don’t get to do after school programs they don’t get to go to museums, parks,and playgrounds.
The only health insurance they have is through me even though there mom can get it for free through her work. Mine cost me $100.00/ week for health and dental. Each one of my kids have $10000.00 put away for college because of me. It’s in my name!!! I fought for custody 4 times and proved with out any doubt that I can provide a better life for my kids. Put them in better schools, better neighborhoods, better home, and provide the attention they would need. and I wasn’t even going for full placement, I was just going for shared placement. So before you start preaching about a women’s rights as a parent, and a women’s entitlement, The father had just as much to do in creating the child and deserve the same rights as the mother. The father is the one who doesn’t get the fair shake. My 17% percent covers 73% of the cost it takes to provide a good life for my kids. I do more then my fair share, and I complain all the time about the new things she has. So with that being said I am now working for myself and able to hide some of my income and so now my support will be going down and the difference in support will be thrown into my kids college fund instead. Now she’s on the verge of loosing her home.
*Gentlemen’s Lounge*
Dear Gentlemen’s Lounge (a-hem):
You wrote: “So before you start preaching about a women’s rights as a parent, and a women’s entitlement, The father had just as much to do in creating the child and deserve the same rights as the mother. The father is the one who doesn’t get the fair shake.” [sic]
I wrote: “Custodial parents do not ‘qualify’ for child support from non-custodial parents; they’re entitled to it.”
Mr. Gentlemen’s Lounge, I was reared by my Father from the time I was three years-old. My mother did not pay child support.
I’d like for you to pay very close attention, Mr. Gentlemen’s Lounge, sir: If you continue to hold resentment toward your ex-wife, keep score cards of her purchases, and exhibit vindictive behaviors such as admittedly concealing your income, your children will suffer in the long term. I say this from experience. Not only will they suffer from the emotional abuse caused by enduring years of arguing parents and absorbing your anger, they will also remember what you and your ex-wife did to them and process it later when their minds are capable of understanding adult relationships on a more rational level.
That said, I hope you’re drunk right now because that’s the only excuse for having as much money as you seem to be able to generate with such a poor command of the English language.
Thank you and good night.
Brava.
Brava, brava, brava.
I don’t know how many times during the course of collecting child support I double checked myself before dropping off the kidlet that I wasn’t wearing anything that made myself look “too well off”. And yet…
“Get your hair cut?”
“New coat?”
“Nice shoes.”
I don’t know any paired parent who lives in abject poverty to keep their kid in the latest entertaining technology–why is it expected that single parents clothe themselves from the 50% off rack at Wal-Mart while the kids are outfitted at Saks, with an ongoing account at FAO Schwartz?
I applaud you until my hands turn red and fall off.
Ok, let us begin with agreeing that there are lots of deadbeat dads. Many men are guilty of what you describe. OTOH, women are not always angels. I know it is important to have female solidarity, but there are a lot of female creeps out there also. I speak from personal experience.
I made sure my wife got more than half of what I made when we split, even before we had a formal agreement. I asked her when she wanted the check. She asked for payment by the 15th since she got paid on the 1st. Verbal agreement. 5 months later as we were working on the final agreement, I got a letter from her lawyer threatening seizure of assets and jail time if I did not send the check by the 1st, as I was supposed to do. Even though she had custody, I bought her clothes, most of her school supplies and had her for the summer every year, except when I got deployed to Saudi Arabia. I took local vacations in Florida where I was stationed, if I took any. Mostly I worked when on vacation at moonlighting jobs.
Once I got out of the service, I got custody. My daughter was missing 30 days of school a year. My ex then never paid any child support and paid not a penny towards her college tuition. Since my daughter was my responsibility, I was not going to let her mother’s lack of support affect her needs. I can honestly say I never said anything to my daughter or my ex about all of this. The ex was taking Caribbean vacations while I was working extra to pay for her flights to visit with me. Just part of what you do as a father, kids come first. I also did not want to poison her relationship with her mother, though TBH, the ex accomplished that on her own.
My ex was entitled to all the new shoes, dresses or whatever she needed. Heck, I would have sent her extra for more shoes, if she had just been a better mother. We pretty much dont talk anymore. Her playing games with payment claims (I was in the service and my pay was garnished. I had no control. The Philadelphia Courts would not even respond to me. It all had to work through her if something screwed up. I would send her additional checks, which she would somehow “forget” to tell the court about. She got an extra few thousand out of this scam. Yes, I am a chump.) Anyway, I have undertaken the long term project of trying to get my daughter and ex to reconcile, with little luck so far. My daughter has a good job now and the ex is trying to get money out of her.
Sorry for the long rant. I was on call last night and had little sleep, so forgive any incoherence, but this is a subject that is a little sore with me. There are a lot of decent fathers out there. You just dont hear about them.
Steve
Steve, I *think* you missed my reply to the first person who commented. This was not a generalization, but a direct response to ONE person’s overheard complaint.
I admit I’m a little insulted that you responded to me this way, I mean, check my tags, which included “dead beat dads” as well as “dead beat moms,” etc. I don’t care what Mr. Gentlemen’s Lounge has to say, but you’re not like THOSE GUYS. Yeah, I’m huffy, and you’re operating on little sleep. ;) Just know, Steve, I would have written the same thing if I’d overheard a woman complaining instead of a man.
My reply to Mr. Gentlemen’s Lounge (I just love that) for anyone else who might’ve missed it: “Mr. Gentlemen’s Lounge, I was reared by my Father from the time I was three years-old. My mother did not pay child support.”
(In all fairness, Dad didn’t pay child support either when I moved in with Mom during my high school years.)
I hope that clears it up because I did make painstaking efforts to include both the terms “baby mama” and “baby daddy” amongst other things so the men wouldn’t respond this way.
I am not going for Gloria Steinem, you know.
And, Anahata, thank you.
P.S. I hate to sound like Chris Rock, but why does everybody always want a pat on the back for being a good parent? That’s expected. Raising a kid with your ex isn’t supposed to be fair or fun (I know firsthand). We couldn’t get along with them in the first place for one reason or another, hence the romantic separations. Right?
Of course, back when there was such a thing as Public Aid, people tended to feel the same way about recipients who were well-dressed, even if the clothes in question had been purchased long before any application for Aid was filed. Most child support recipients also earn money on their own, and are bloody well entitled to spend it any way they choose.
I’ve been practicing divorce law for 30+ years. I’ve represented a lot of fathers who fought for custody for all the right reasons. I generally won. So I can’t rightly be accused of bias. Nonetheless, even really well-intentioned dads don’t really understand what it costs to raise a kid. I have been asked by such clients, in perfectly good faith, if there were some way they could pay their child support into a trust fund for the kid’s college. Presumably getting the kid to the door of the college is entirely the problem of the custodial parent?
Which, BTW, is also how many probate judges in Cook County seem to think. How else explain the fact that they expect a widowed parent who has been left as trustee of insurance monies for the kid to pay all the costs of raising the kid, and use the insurance monies only for tuition and emergency medical bills? If the kid has to live on the street in the meantime because Mom can’t pay the mortgage from her own resources, that’s tough.
Sorry for the rant.
Ok, my apologies now that I am up and re-read. I agree that I do not understand the guys who think their ex should wear rags as long as they provide child support. You pay child support because you love your child and because you have an obligation to care for your kids. The person caring for the child cannot be expected to not have a life.
I will respond a little more slowly on this stuff in the future as I get a little touchy. I work with mostly women and am regularly inundated with stories about how awful the men are who left them. Having worked with these people for years, I’m thinking there are usually two sides to these stories.
Steve
I think that one of my better life decisions was that when I reached the age of 30 with no progeny and no desire for progeny, I had myself surgically sterilized.
Great topic.
In fact it’s one of those topics where I can state that we learn a lot more from our mistakes than we do our successes.
I did child support wrong. Looking back on it I now understand that the reason I did child support wrong was because I didn’t understand that there are rules when it comes to divorces and we should play by the rules. Of course I didn’t know there were rules when it came to marriage and I didn’t play by those either.
So with the wisdom learned from doing it wrong I believe I’ve got a pretty good handle on doing it right. When I say I did it wrong it isn’t that I didn’t pay it. I just didn’t work as hard at it that I should have. And I sure as heck didn’t have the right attitude about it.
My only redemption is my kids when they were old enough rejected their mother’s world and sought out mine. My daughter did it when she was fifteen. My son when he got serious about raising his own daughter. He was in his early thirties by then. Both of them have homes and families within a couple of miles of us. Their mother is fifteen hundred miles away.
I believe every child born out of wedlock should be tested for parentage via DNA. The reason I don’t believe it should be considered for married couples is some of the best fathers I know are raising children they didn’t parent even though they were married to the mother at the time. The fathers know this and it doesn’t seem to matter. They’re men amongst men in my book.
There are a couple of reasons for the need for the DNA testing from my perspective. The most important one of course is the financial obligation of the father. It won’t take long before it gets across to young men that if they do father a child it’s at least an eighteen year old financial commitment they can’t avoid.
Just as importantly I believe is that the DNA test removes the parentage of the child from the parents the option of not playing fair when it comes to fighting. I’ve seen too many times when a mother will tell a father he isn’t the father for the pain it might cause him. The same thing is true for men when they want to hurt the mother. They will disown the child to get back at her.
A good thing that could come from having marriage for homosexuals is it might frame marriage as something about romantic love of the divine design kind. We know that framing marriage as divine design isn’t a good thing. It’s a statistical fact that atheists have the lowest divorce rates. Evangelicals have the highest. Love of the divine design kind isn’t the most user friendly it seems.
The good thing about understanding and appreciating marriage from the contractual perspective is we’re more likely to understand and appreciate divorce as more of the same. In fact it’s interesting to me that understanding what marriage is and isn’t not only makes for better divorces, it makes for fewer divorces.
I’m sure all of you have seen on one of the nature channels examples of how male lions will kill cubs of the previous male in charge. Baboons are also famous for this.
We see a simiilar thing in human relationships. But it isn’t just the males that do the damage. A lot of the time it’s the new wife who resents child support to the old wife more than the husband.
A good thing that could come from having marriage for homosexuals is it might frame marriage as something about romantic love of the divine design kind.
A good thing that could come from having marriage for homosexuals is it might frame marriage as something not about romantic love of the divine design kind.
Thanks for your excellent attitude, Steve. As a female union steward who works primarily with men in a blue collar environment, I guess I’m coming from the opposite end of your working-with-women situation. I have worked with women before and, well, I feel your pain.
My ex and I did not always get along like we do now. I’d say we’re lucky at this point, but it involved a ridiculous amount of self control and holding my mother back from beating the crap out of him. Likewise on his side of the fence. Anyway, we agreed to have the state deduct directly from his pay so that we wouldn’t have that as an issue. I know a lot of people don’t have the luxury of a former spouse who has had the same, seemingly steady job for a long time. His payments allow me the extra money so I only have to work the hours when our child is in school a few days a week. That way I can actually be present for my primary duty as custodial parent — rearing our kid when my ex can’t be there. Not a day goes by when I don’t feel thankful that he and I are on the same page with our obligation to not screw up our kid. That’s why dead beat parents really irritate me.
WS: I would have pulled my hair out working as a divorce atty. I certainly know that the period of time during my proceedings was NOT my finest hour. I utilized those months to really channel my inner fifteen year-old girl, all angst-y and at the end of her rope! So embarrassing. So, so embarrassing. I can understand how people would say things without thinking clearly during that difficult adjustment phase.
John: Congratulations. You are NOT the father. (That’s what you’d hear on Maury.) Children aren’t for everybody. My good friend always says that we are not living in some episode of Star Trek where it’s our duty to re-populate the planet as quickly as possible before some Great Rapture. I am done, but I hope I get a grandkid one day, er, in twenty years. Those things look like a lot of fun because you can: play with them, feed them high-fructose corn syrup items, return them, and still get twelve hours of sleep! Perfect!
Harvey: Many great points there. I’m glad you’ve recovered from Child Support Done Wrong. Heh. You’re right; that does give you great insight. So, uh, YOU should write a commentary!
!
I agree. Everybody needs a DNA test, though. Maury could have his own cable network channel. ;)
I haven’t figured out the whole marriage thing. That scares me still. I thought it was about love. My boyfriend and I have been together a couple of years, and we’re happy, but lately the whole gay marriage thing has gotten us to thinking about the contractual “what ifs” that could happen with our own arrangement.
Also, Harvey, that’s a great point about the ex-spouse’s potentially resentful new wife! I hope mine stays with his current girlfriend who is incredibly kind to our child, but I know how we can never tell what lurks around the corner. Muhahaha! Luckily, I have a spunky tween whose budding mood swings might scare off women with poor intentions. Cross your fingers for me.
A tweener huh?
I like to tell parents of teens that there are a couple of things they need to keep in mind about teenagers.
First there’s the asshole gene. We all have it. In some of us it’s a more dominant gene that it is in others. It is critical for the child to become an adult.
Where we usually see it first exhibited is during the teen age years. It’s a good thing. Because without it most parents would never let go of the child so they could embrace the adult. So when that darling daughter acts like an asshole keep in mind that it’s part of the process. It’s not about you. It’s not about her. It’s about making the transition from being a child into becoming an adult. And sometimes a kid needs to be an asshole just to get the parents to get out of the way of progress.
We also see this gene activated later on in adulthood. Usually in the presence of a teenager with an over active asshole gene.
Another thing I like to point out is our teenager is our report card for the first twelve years of being their parent. All of our mistakes along with our successes are right there for the whole world to see.
I see too many parents seeing their child’s life all about themselves. This is especially true of mothers, perfectly understandable, but still just as wrong. The cold hard facts is the child’s life is so full that the parents disappear into the background, becoming furniture if you will.
That doesn’t mean the parent isn’t important. If anything they’re even more important at this time. It’s just that being a parent is the most important thing they have to do. The kid doesn’t need another friend. Friends come and go at this time in their lives. The last thing they need is a parent to do the same.
One of the things that parents seem to forget about the barriers they put up around their teenagers is they’re not there just to keep the kid in. They’re also there to keep the bad stuff out. Instinctively the children know this and expect it from their parents.
I’ve got to run. But the one thing to keep in mind is getting them through teenagerhood is just part of it. Sitting next to me hammering away at my wife’s keyboard is my two year old granddaughter.
One of the things all fathers want for their daughters is them finding a better father for their daughters than their mother did for them. I’m lucky because in our case she did it better than I could ever have hoped.
My daughter has a very good job. My son in law just got the job of a lifetime, just desserts. So they’ve had to work out the getting of the two kiddos to the daycare and school etc. The little boy is four and the girl is two.
This is their first week with son in laws new job in the picture. He brought the two year old over on his way to work this morning. My daughter took the boy to his day care center where they will take him to school and pick him up.
My wife suggested that it would be easier on them if she went over there early in the morning and took over responsibility for getting the kiddos on their way. That way the kids could concentrate on getting off to work.
I vetoed that idea loud and strong. The biggest reason for that is the kids having to work it out as a team is the best thing for the marriage.
Mine is eleven in two weeks. I cannot believe I made her. She’s just so cool — asshole gene and all (she’s sooooo cursed).
It is VERY hard to let her develop into this thing that I “embarrass.” I almost feel like they need us more as they get older, you know.
I made her join the science club a while ago, and she was furious. When she got into the car after the first meeting, she thanked me and said how much fun it was, how much she learned. I was incredibly happy even though just hours before she was telling me all about how I ruin her life constantly. Sometimes, it’s hard not to laugh…and not to cry.
I hope the job and the shuffling and all pan out as best as possible. My mom helps out three afternoons a week, and Bella, my kiddo, has a very sweet relationship with her that I just don’t see kids having with their grandparents these days. Life would have been/be so much more hectic without the kid-sitting availability, so high fives to you and Mrs. Harvey.
Kristan, if you were my daughter and this was one of those father-daughter talks we have on occasion I would point out a couple of things I believe about parenting, especially a really great kid.
The first thing to consider when interacting with a great kid is about making it about us instead of them. Keep in mind, we don’t really start getting the reality about us not being the center of the universe until we’re much older. Before then it is all about us. That’s why kids take divorces so badly. If their parents split it has to be because of something the child did, should have done, could have done, etc and so on. That’s because in their eyes it is all about them.
When we make it about us, whatever it is, we are stealing their limelight, thunder, attention, whatever. That isn’t a good thing because it turns us from being the adult into being a competitor on the play ground.
Another thing I believe that is missed so often in parenting is the need for hardship. I like to say from a blacksmithing perspective, you can’t make a sword without heat hot enough to melt metal and a hammer. Sword making isn’t a painless process.
So when an occasion comes up and the parent wants to make things better because it involves a hardship I believe we need to step back and try to decide if we’re trying to make it better or if we’re only trying to make it easier. Making it easier is bad in my book.
I’ve noticed all the really important lessons involve hardship and usually some pain of the emotional kind. The reason for that is the lesson is so important that the pain and hardship are there to make sure the lesson is learned. When we as a parent sabotage lessoning one oh one we do our child a disservice. We suggest that they are too special for lessoning with our interference in the way things should be. We also risk them not getting the lesson and the next time that lesson comes around the consequences invariably are more severe.
One of my pet theories is that it skips generations. The kids are more like their grandparents than they are like the parents.
I think this is wonderful. And not just because I’m a grandpa of six or more, do a search on D Magazine for “Redemption” by harvey lacey, I am. But because I believe we learn by example a lot of the time. So if the grandchild accepts that they’re more likely to be like their grandpa let’s say than their dad they’ve got a heads up on what can lie ahead.
They can see their grandpa’s flaws and start preparing to not to go down that path. On the other hand they can see grandpa’s good parts and feel good that chances are they are going to have those for their own.
My mom’s dad was an artist and quite the character. Everyone in the family pretty well agrees I got that part of him down pat. But my grandpa also with his example of life taught me two of the most important lessons I’ve learned.
He was a jealous man. He was especially jealous of his work. There are lots of stories about him not only bullying his competitors, but their customers. He was a terrorist when it came to his work. I’m the opposite. If a competitor, and they do, comes to me and asks how I did something I will not only usually tell them, if given the time, I will show them the magic.
He was also a terrorist in his relationships with women. He killed my step grandma and himself when I was nine years old. I learned from his life when it comes to women. I have a relationship with my wife to envied. My relationship with my daughter is extremely special.
I like to say a father gets his report card from his daughter when she shows up with the man she wants to marry. I’m comfortable with suggesting the same is true of mothers and sons.
The father can look at the young man and see in him the qualities that the daughter likes about her father. She can also look at the young man and see the qualities she doesn’t like about her father because they’re not there in the young man.
I can look at my son in law and see the man I should’ve been in some ways. But I can also look at him and see some of the qualities that I like to think I have.
I’ll bet that you can look at your daughter and you mother and see what I’m talking about. If I’m right you can make their bond better by pointing it out. You can also start helping your daughter not make some of the mistakes your mother has by using her as an example.
One of the things about being family is we’re accepted for what we are. I don’t have to explain myself to the kids to justify the way I am. They’ve already dealt with it and made the adjustments necessary to keep on loving me. They understand that if there’s a monster at the door they had better not be in the doorway because the old man is coming through. On the other hand, if it’s life at the door he’s going to tell them to deal with it.
I love this part of life btw. Sixty is like thirty with a handle for me.
Should check this out:
http://www.petitiononline.com/7869ryt/petition.html
To have a life (kids of your own) with someone paying child support (that made a mistake) is impossible with present laws.
Not all cases are the same…the law should considere that.